Showing posts with label Protestantism. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Protestantism. Show all posts

Monday, April 03, 2017

What is the church?

Full Question

I am Catholic. A Protestant told me that the people are the church, but I’m pretty sure that is not true. Can you help me? What is the Church?

Answer

Your friend was correct as far as he went. The Second Vatican Council, in Lumen Gentium, stated the Church is the people of God. Protestants see this as pretty much it. They understand church as a name for a structure-less body of people who follow Christ and believe in his divinity as the second Person of the Holy Trinity, revealed in the Bible alone.
Catholics, on the other hand, understand the Church also in terms of a hierarchical structure, with definite authority given to it by Jesus in the person of Peter and therefore to his successors. We see in Scripture much evidence that Jesus gave personal attention to the apostles, preparing them to minister after he was no longer with them. “Anyone who listens to you listens to me; anyone who rejects you rejects me, and those who reject me reject the one who sent me” (Lk 10:16). There was no reason for him to prepare them for only their lifetime. The early Church Fathers verify this. The early Church does not fall into the Protestant vision of a structure-less, sacrament-less body of believers. It was hierarchically structured and sacramental. The canon of the New Testament, on which Protestants base all their faith, is the product of this Church.

Wednesday, April 11, 2012

Leaving the church because of sex

A blogger I’ve  known only through our shared cyber-space as librarians on discussion lists and as bloggers mentioned at his blog that he has moved over to an Anglican church from the Catholic church due to the Roman Catholic’s position on women clergy, on marriage of gays, and the sexual abuse scandals.

That’s putting a lot of stock into current cultural beliefs in the face of 2,000 years of church history and teaching, plus all the Hebrew/Jewish traditions that came before that.  In fact, it flies in the face of the history of the human race and all religions, not just Catholicism.  There’s virtually no mention of homosexuality in the Old Testament except in veiled references to temple practices of other religions which the Jews were supposed to avoid at all costs.  But dalliances with young men and male temple prostitutes were certainly well known and even accepted in Greek and Roman cultures.  Gracious!  Have you seen some of those murals in collapsing ancient buildings? The Greeks and Romans lived in sex saturated times, male, female, animal, child, multiples—made no difference (if we can believe their art and literature, and why shouldn’t we?). They probably inherited profligate and perverted sex from the civilizations who came before them.  God chose the Jews for a reason—they were the only ones, even in sin who seemed to really get the story of creation. 

That said, even with trips to the temple for sex with young, beautiful temple prostitutes, male and female, when it came to building blocks for the society, it was marriage between a male and female.  Yes, some engaged in polygamy, or polyandry, some had mistresses and concubines and some men may have preferred a male concubine, but the state/monarchy/emperor or tribal elder recognized the marriage.  There was a distant memory and command in the mind of all cultures.

As for women priests, show me a church that is growing under female leadership.  Sure, maybe you support it, but have you joined one?  Have you encouraged your call committee in that direction?  Even men who claim to be “feminists” don’t like sitting under the authority of a woman, often not at work, but certainly not at the church.  They’ll never admit it, but quietly, the numbers begin to drop.

Child abuse?  The Roman Catholic church is a huge target; and it’s rich.  Why sue a school system where the abusers, at least until recently, are just passed from school to school, protected by their unions?  We’re just beginning to hear how many female teachers are predators as the stories are leaked to the papers.  How many Protestant clergy have been caught with their hand in the . . . well, and just quietly moved on to the next small church thinking the problem will go away if we just warn him.  Although many young girls have certainly been molested at the hands of clergy, teachers, babysitters, etc., the number of boys and gay men involved is way out of their proportion (1.5%) in the general population.

But this particular librarian who has left the church, who became a convert to Catholicism and took all the instruction in 1992, now thinks that the profound spiritual wisdom of the 20th and 21st centuries exceeds that of the church he committed himself to just 20 years ago and in which he agreed to raise his children and be faithful to his wife (who has remained Catholic).

Imagine all the stuff a Protestant is exposed to in RCIA which must completely have baffled him—like 7 sacraments, or the teaching about the perpetual virginity of Mary, or all the stages to go through to become a saint, or all the special holidays, seasons and observances he’d never heard of.  Think about undoing all the teaching Christians hear in Baptist or Lutheran or Nazarene churches about evil, unscriptural Catholicism.  That’s a huge leap for gay marriage and the ordination of women priests!

And  he threw it all over for a fad, fable and fantasy.  I’m not a Catholic, but it appears he wasn’t either.

Friday, April 22, 2011

Where is Martin Luther when you need him?

When I listen to our local Catholic radio (St. Gabriel's, 1580 am, which includes many programs from EWTN), I’m still hearing the 16th century abuses of the church about which Martin Luther spoke and wrote: purgatory (a special place of judgement and penance we Protestants know nothing about since it's not in the Bible), indulgences to reduce time in purgatory (out of favor after the reforms of the 1960s, but returning since 2000 and becoming more popular), merit dispensed by the church (tradition), transubstantiation (consuming the real physical body and blood of Jesus), special privileges, rights and positions of honor for ordained priests (one in particular who resides in Rome, called the Pope) rather than the priesthood of believers with a single high priest, Jesus Christ, worship (veneration) of Mary the Mother of Jesus and other saints and praying to them for protection and guidance, proving various miracles after death of some believers to achieve sainthood for them, complex doctrines and stories completely unfamiliar to me like visions and relics. And it's not hard to hear at least a reference to all of these in just a day or two, with only a nod or a few minutes for grace and trusting in nothing but the merits of Christ. But that's where the freedom is, and that's what changed the whole western world 400 years ago, and is creating revolutions today in Africa and Asia.

On the other hand, if I choose to listen to so-called "Christian radio," which is a hodge-podge of Baptist, Pentecostal, dispensational, non-denominational, and personal opinion groups bound together with syrupy praise songs and Vineyard tunes, I can practically starve, spiritually speaking.

Sunday, March 06, 2011

To the victor belongs the archives

As a Protestant (first an Anabaptist, then United Church of Christ, and currently Lutheran) I've had a pretty narrow view of history. In 2009 when our Lutheran church group travelled to the Holy Land we went with a group from the Greek Orthodox Church in Columbus, and that truly was my first association with this very important Christian heritage. All Christians share the early documents of the church and the ecumenical councils and the creeds. But the Protestant Reformation is strongly rooted in Rome, not Constantinople.

Today I watched the first 2 installments of The History of Orthodox Christianity. It's written, produced and distributed by GOTelecom (Greek Orthodox Telecommunications, Inc). Recently I've been listening regularly to St. Gabriel's Radio (WVKO in Columbus, OH) which carries a lot of EWTN syndicated shows like Mornings with Mother and The Father Corapi show, and I've learned a lot, been reinforced in many faith issues, and disagree a lot--just changing channels when they get to worship of Mary or purgatory. But to follow that up with the Greek Orthodox point of view on "tradition and history" of the church is quite amazing.

Also, the spread of Islam in the early church years and the lack of cohension and even human kindness between the eastern and western Christian church were appalling. It's sort of the difference between what the hen and the pig contribute to "ham and eggs." Also, the difference in the art to help tell the story is a real culture shock.


OrthodoxWiki
Orthdox Church in America

Wednesday, November 11, 2009

How to understand what's happening

to the Christians in the United States. Lutherans are in grief and shock--well, maybe not those who think only the local congregation matters. But the August "Church Wide Assembly" which approved gay pastors and marriage after 20 years of nibbling around the edges, for some reason, surprised some (not me). Here's one of the best explanations I've read by David Housholder to catch you up, just in case you're not a Christian, or you only show up for weddings, funerals and Christmas Eve.
Full document here.

"There are two emerging Christianities.

1) One is a postwar liberal movement with roots in the 19th century social gospel, liberal German theology from that same era, and flavored with a shot of very resilient Marxism. This faction has firm control over most mainline Protestant North American denominations, colleges, and seminaries. Their preaching is cool and reflective and nuanced.
    "Let us then go forth brothers and sisters to renew our efforts to establish justice and peace throughout God's creation. For the sake of the greater Gospel and the Christ who was crucified."
2) The other was born around campfires on the mission field and the songs of slavery. Its piety is "warm to hot," expressive, potent, and unpredictable. There is a supernatural vibe to the body language and speech. It is a high-touch world of prayer and laying on of hands. It can be found in storefront churches full of immigrants in any major world city."

These two, writes Housholder repel each of like two poles of a magnet--in some ways they gain identitiy by NOT being like the other and each sees their group as an upgrade over and against the other. They are mutually patronizing. When I (Norma) used to be on Usenet (all text) for a writers group, the Christian groups were the most vicious and snarly so I never joined any of those groups. Liberationist or charismatic or dispensationalist, it made no difference.

The fault line is not whether gays are saved by the work of Jesus Christ (Christians can't work their way to salvation), but whether they can be pastors in committed relationships or can be married in the church. In the good old days of theological splits and snipes, writes Housholder, traditional family morality was upheld by both groups (even as our divorce rates soared). Now that is gone. The Protestant denominations are unraveling. Yours too, in case you aren't there yet, there is a study group or task force planning to take you for a free and painful ride until the crash at the end.

All the king's horses and all the king's men will not be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. A community cannot be held together with two sets of rules on the big-ticket issues. There may be more understanding and consensus on the abortion issue than this one which goes to the heart of biblical revelation from Genesis to Revelation.

The grand coalition of North American Protestantism has unraveled, he says. Liberals will retain control of the mainline denominations, Housholder predicts, and the conservatives will either 1) stay and keep quiet, 2) leave the mainline world and join a non-denominational group, or 3) be visionary and creative.

Sunday, August 31, 2008

Another Aging American minority

Did you know that only 8% of Americans belong to what we call mainline Protestant denominations? Surprised?
    . . .the actual organizations at the center—the defining churches in each of the denominations that make up the Mainline—have fallen to insignificance. The Disciples of Christ with 750,000 members, the United Church of Christ with 1.2 million, the American Baptist Churches with 1.5 million, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) with 2.3 million, the Episcopalians with 2.3 million, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America with 5 million, and the United Methodist Church with 8.1 million: That’s around 21 million people, in a nation of more than 300 million. The conservative Southern Baptist Convention alone has 16 million members in the United States. The Catholic Church has 67 million. The death of Protestant America
I'm a member of Upper Arlington Lutheran Church, an evangelical, multi-campus, believing congregation within the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, one of the Mainliners sliding into insignificance, losing millions of members to more conservative groups since its last merger 20 years ago. UALC has thrived because it has a message--you are dead in your sins and need salvation through Jesus Christ. ELCA has wasted thousands of hours and dollars over seven years trying to decide whether marriage means one man and one woman. We know where it's going--liberals can kill a church, congregation or synod this way, and then our congregation along with thousands of others will leave ELCA and create something else. Mainline Protestants are leaving for conservative churches, for Catholicism, for Orthodoxy, and for sleeping in and turning off.

I grew up and was baptised in Church of the Brethren (Anabaptist) and although it doesn't get counted in these numbers because it probably only has 50,000 members, it is also mainline in theology and culture. Our churches need to have something besides a glorious past and a present of worshiping at the feet of the gods of environmentalism, feminism, pacifism and leftist social causes. Anti-Catholicism and anti-semitism are now found primarily in the Mainline churches because of leftist politics and anti-Israel rhetoric.

Mainline Protestants have the oldest average age of any religious group in America, at almost 52 years, with 28% of believers over age 65. Adding happy, clappy guitar music and praise tunes to the service will not turn this around. Down with spirituality--we need a future. Jesus.
    America was Methodist, once upon a time—or Baptist, or Presbyterian, or Congregationalist, or Episcopalian. Protestant, in other words. What can we call it today? Those churches simply don’t mean much any more. That’s a fact of some theological significance. It’s a fact of genuine sorrow, for that matter, as the aging members of the old denominations watch their congregations dwindle away: funeral after funeral, with far too few weddings and baptisms in between. But future historians, telling the story of our age, will begin with the public effect in the United States.